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My torpedoes keep blowing...
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alower
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alower

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Post Post subject: My torpedoes keep blowing...
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:02 PM
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Hi again,

I have been toying with torpedo bombing (offline, inside QMB) and so far never succeeded: No matter what I do, my torpedo is destroyed upon hitting the water.

I have been flying at about 20~30 m heigh and never faster than 250 km/h. I searched the forum for answers, but found no discussion of this particular problem (although there's plenty of comments on proper aiming, etc.).

Maybe there is some sort of setting I am not aware of?

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KrashanTopolova
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Post Post subject:
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:06 PM
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Sounds like you are in a shallow dive when dropping the torpedo. Straight and level flight is needed to drop a torpedo otherwise it will hit the water at too steep an angle and just continue down into the ocean and maybe even reach the bottom and destroy all those weird lifeforms which have their habitat around oceanic hot sulphuric volcanic outlets... or those astounding creatures which inhabit the oceanic dark depths with no eyes. Now we don't want that do we?


Last edited by KrashanTopolova on Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:07 PM; edited 1 times in total
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alower
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alower

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Post Post subject:
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:24 PM
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KrashanTopolova wrote:
Sounds like you are in a shallow dive when dropping the torpedo. Straight and level flight is needed to drop a torpedo otherwise it will hit the water at too steep an angle and just continue down into the ocean and maybe even reach the bottom and destroy all those weird lifeforms which have their habitat around oceanic hot sulphuric volcanic outlets... or those astounding creatures which inhabit the oceanic dark depths with no eyes. Now we don't want that do we?
Nope, I'm flying straight and level, and the torpedos never failed - not even once - to get destroyed upon touching the water... There is a phrase on the screen notifying me of this event which I cannot recall right now, something like "torpedo destroyed upon hitting the water".

I still think there must be some setting I have to adjust.

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Chris_Blair
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Post Post subject:
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:26 PM
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Hmmm


Which QMB map? And are you using any mods?


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KrashanTopolova
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Post Post subject:
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:58 PM
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To tell you the truth I fly in ft and KIAS and am lower than 20m when dropping torpedoes. Try it and see what happens.

Another possibility is that the game is simulating the behaviour of a specific torpedo. USN torpedoes early in the war were not relable. Japanese torpedoes were much better.

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alower
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Post Post subject:
Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:37 AM
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Now I am framed: I never knew what "mods" stands for - pretty embarrassing, I know... My software is updated to version 10.

The map is either Coral Sea online or Pacific Islands. The map does not seem to matter. The planes I tried were the Beaufighter and the Il-2, and in both cases the torpedoes simply burst upon hitting the water.


Last edited by alower on Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:38 AM; edited 1 times in total
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Chris_Blair
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Post Post subject:
Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 01:17 AM
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Smile

Mods are "Modifications"

The blunt truth is that the code for the sim was hacked years ago to allow the formerly hard-coded files to be edited, and the softer term "modified" is used for a hacked install that allows the files to changed, and a Modder is one who makes those changes. Some are quite good and useful mods although I've never lost sight of the fact that my installation of the sim is at heart a hacked install. And I really love the mods in my install!

A 'mod' would be a new map such as the English Channel map, or new effects such as smoke that can be seen for a longer distance or new aircraft such as the Fairey Battle. On the down side, a mod could be a combat weight P-51B that goes 500 mph in level flight. Fortunately, the modding community has been pretty circumspect and has made a big effort to make accurate mods, or at least as accurate as they know how to make them. Some modders known how to make quite accurate mods

There are collections of Mods such as UltraPack, which is known as "UP"

You have a standard, non-modified install Smile


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tafkat
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Post Post subject:
Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 04:28 AM
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If you´re using IL21946 4.10 (unmoded) it simply isn´t enough to fly slow and low, your plane has to fly inside a specific <flight-perimeter>, depending upon the torpedo-type you´re trying to release.

Quote::
Each torpedo type had an optimum altitude and speed of drop that allowed it to
hit the water with a determined, optimum angle. If the angle was bigger, the torpedo tended
to sink. If it was smaller, it did not enter the water and skipped on the surface. Also, the
torpedo could not be dropped from too high altitude, because if it impacted the water too
hard, its internal mechanism could be damaged.

Here are the correct(according to the 4.10 release notes) parameters:

• LT F5W (Italian Whitehead)
100m, 300Km/h
• LT F5B
40m, 250Km/h
• Mk13, Mk13a
30m, 205 km/h
• Mk13 late
180m, 400 km/h
(this torpedo had a much wider range of drop than the early one)
• Type91
30m, 240 Km/h
• Type91 late
60m, 330 km/h
(this torpedo had a much wider range of drop than the early one)
• 45-17
30m, 205 km/h
Also torpedoes had to run for some time into the water to arm their warhead, so torpedoes
cannot be dropped too close to the ship (distance should be bigger tan 400-600 meters).
Torpedoes dropped on ground or directly on the ship (without hitting water) will not explode.


If you´re way off these perimeters, your torpedo WILL fail, if you´re close, your torpedo MIGHT run smoothly, my personal experience says you have a margin of about 5-10% to the optimal flight-condition.


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alower
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Post Post subject:
Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 07:30 PM
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Thanks Chris, that was really enlightening! Now I begin to understand things like the Hawker Typhoon I've seen on someone else's post, etc. I've been wondering where did that guy got a plane that is not in the sim I have...

Now that I know what they are, I will search the site for the available "mods", which I suspect are posted somewhere and should be installable, right? By the way, I could certainly use another map or two in my QMB Rolling Eyes

All in all, thanks for the heads up!



Chris_Blair wrote:
Smile

Mods are "Modifications"

The blunt truth is that the code for the sim was hacked years ago to allow the formerly hard-coded files to be edited, and the softer term "modified" is used for a hacked install that allows the files to changed, and a Modder is one who makes those changes. Some are quite good and useful mods although I've never lost sight of the fact that my installation of the sim is at heart a hacked install. And I really love the mods in my install!

A 'mod' would be a new map such as the English Channel map, or new effects such as smoke that can be seen for a longer distance or new aircraft such as the Fairey Battle. On the down side, a mod could be a combat weight P-51B that goes 500 mph in level flight. Fortunately, the modding community has been pretty circumspect and has made a big effort to make accurate mods, or at least as accurate as they know how to make them. Some modders known how to make quite accurate mods

There are collections of Mods such as UltraPack, which is known as "UP"

You have a standard, non-modified install Smile

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alower
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alower

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Post Post subject:
Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 07:32 PM
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Thanks Tafkat, I had no idea there were such specific height/speed envelopes for each torpedo model. I will try again and see what happens.

tafkat wrote:
If you´re using IL21946 4.10 (unmoded) it simply isn´t enough to fly slow and low, your plane has to fly inside a specific <flight-perimeter>, depending upon the torpedo-type you´re trying to release.

If you´re way off these perimeters, your torpedo WILL fail, if you´re close, your torpedo MIGHT run smoothly, my personal experience says you have a margin of about 5-10% to the optimal flight-condition.

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KrashanTopolova
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Post Post subject:
Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:27 PM
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thanks tafkat...I wasn't aware of this.

Il-2 has a certain typical military organisation about it that makes me 'shape up or ship out' if I don't keep up with information that is required for flying operations.

...but then again...if they get too stiff upper lip and uppity I just might go AWOL


Last edited by KrashanTopolova on Fri Feb 11, 2011 10:55 PM; edited 1 times in total
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alower
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alower

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Post Post subject:
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 07:27 PM
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Hi again Tafkat,

I noticed I don't have access to the torpedoes you listed below... Among other things, I don't have a flyable Fairey Swordfish, etc. Could you please tell me which are the mods I must install to get access to planes (and thus the corresponding torpedoes you listed)?

tafkat wrote:
If you´re using IL21946 4.10 (unmoded) it simply isn´t enough to fly slow and low, your plane has to fly inside a specific <flight-perimeter>, depending upon the torpedo-type you´re trying to release.

Quote::
Each torpedo type had an optimum altitude and speed of drop that allowed it to
hit the water with a determined, optimum angle. If the angle was bigger, the torpedo tended
to sink. If it was smaller, it did not enter the water and skipped on the surface. Also, the
torpedo could not be dropped from too high altitude, because if it impacted the water too
hard, its internal mechanism could be damaged.

Here are the correct(according to the 4.10 release notes) parameters:

• LT F5W (Italian Whitehead)
100m, 300Km/h
• LT F5B
40m, 250Km/h
• Mk13, Mk13a
30m, 205 km/h
• Mk13 late
180m, 400 km/h
(this torpedo had a much wider range of drop than the early one)
• Type91
30m, 240 Km/h
• Type91 late
60m, 330 km/h
(this torpedo had a much wider range of drop than the early one)
• 45-17
30m, 205 km/h
Also torpedoes had to run for some time into the water to arm their warhead, so torpedoes
cannot be dropped too close to the ship (distance should be bigger tan 400-600 meters).
Torpedoes dropped on ground or directly on the ship (without hitting water) will not explode.


If you´re way off these perimeters, your torpedo WILL fail, if you´re close, your torpedo MIGHT run smoothly, my personal experience says you have a margin of about 5-10% to the optimal flight-condition.

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tafkat
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tafkat

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Posts: 154

Post Post subject:
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 07:46 AM
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Hi Alower!

The torps are in the 4.10 patch, but what you can´t do is say, fly an axis plane and select allied torps, and most(all?) planes can carry only specific torpedos.
Furthermore there are only a handfull of planes that can carry torpedos at all, these are e.g. american A-20s, british Beaufighters, german Ju-88s, italian SM.79s, nippon Bettys(G4M1), russian IL-2Ts, and a few more.

And no, the Swordfish isn´t included in 4.10 (as flyable), you´ll have to mod your game with UP2.01 to get it. Or wait till it´s part of a later patch.
As far as I know 4.10 and UP2.01 are not yet fully compatible, read the forums(users who tryed it)

My way:

-a clean 4.09 install (a backup! don´t ask, just do it)
-a clean 4.10 install unmodded
-a modded 409 UP201 install
-a modded 409 HSFX411 install

and these are only the ones I play with, each one of the above has an additional backup stored away. Wink

So, if you want the Swordfish so desperatly, mod your game, but be prepared! (-to loose data & temper, the whole game freaking up, and some surprise ctds.
Well, again, read the forums, plenty of advice there, how to do and don´t! Very Happy


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Last edited by tafkat on Wed Feb 16, 2011 07:57 AM; edited 2 time in total
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alower
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Post Post subject:
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 02:42 PM
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Thanks Tafkat. I think I'll play safe and stick to the unmodded version 4.10 for now. Are you positive that by selecting the right plane and arming combination I can gain access to all these torpedo models you listed earlier on?

In the meantime I have been playing a bit with a Betty, flying ridiculously low and slow, sometimes succeeding in not having the torpedo disintegrate upon entering the water... as people suggest here, practice is probably what I need now.

I have two other questions in case anyone cares to pitch in:

1) I only use the QMB (did not find detailed directions on how to use the FMB yet - lots to learn!), so the only ships I can ever practice on are those of the "Coral Sea Online" map. Except learning how to program my own quick missions via FMB, is there any other way to get hold of quick missions that feature ships for sure?

2) I've been experimenting with rockets (HVAR and the british 60 lbs) against shipping, and like what have seen so far. Only problem is that QMB only lets me fire 2 rockets at a time. Is there any way to select ripple fire or firing the complete rocket load at once? For the record, I'm using an unmodded version 4.10.


Last edited by alower on Wed Feb 16, 2011 02:45 PM; edited 2 time in total
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tafkat
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tafkat

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Post Post subject:
Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:50 PM
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You´re welcome.

Actually, <moding> isn´t very difficult, rather time-consuming.
You have to carefully read installation instructions, spend a lot of time downloading these huge packs, making BACKUPS, maybe make a new 4.09 install, it takes time and time and time, but it´s not tricky.
And once you´re done you might be quite satisfied, all those new planes, maps, sounds etc... Wink

Best thing about IL2 1946, you can just copy & paste the whole folder and apply mods/patches there w/o ruining your running game!
So don´t be afraid, be careful!

And yes I´m sure about the planes and arming combination, selecting the Betty should let you choose torpedo <Type 91> or <Type 91(late)>, here´s a picture:


To your question #1: Actually on most maps (with sea) can ships be found, sometimes a bit hidden,
some were mentionend here, you have to scroll down a bit:
mission4today.com/inde...mp;t=10314

#2 Don´t know nothing here, I´ve always found that there are so many targets but so very few and precious rockets, so I never thought about a >full salvo< Very Happy


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