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4.11 Much harder than 4.10>
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pfslau
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Post Post subject: 4.11 Much harder than 4.10>
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 04:17 PM
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Maybe you will all think I am crazy, I thought I was at first. Rolling Eyes
But I was playing the IJN static "Growing Glory" campaign. Awesome campaign by the way.

I think in the middle of it I updated to 4.11 patch. Anyway I didn't notice anything really at first, but then later in the campaign you're suppose to shoot down some B29. I wasn't able to catch them. I was playing without CME and thought that might have something to do with it, so I restarted the campaign.

So I start from the beginning and am getting my a** kicked. I mean not really kicked but I can't even catch the Hellcats. In 4.10 I could, wasn't easy, but I could.
It seems to me in 4.11 that they are almost always higher and faster.

So I did a test. I installed both 4.10 and 4.11 and just played the first mission, and definitely noticed a difference. in 4.10 I shoot down 2 planes. In 4.11 I couldn't even catch a plane to shoot down.
In that mission you engage at about 11,000 feet. Since the Hellcats are always higher, I try to climb, and they climb, and I pretty much gave him when we were at 20,000 ft. It's not much fun anymore chasing planes around. Only chance I have is to turn into them as they dive at me and *hope* to get a head shot. Fat chance.

Anyone else noticing anything like this?I haven't played any other campaigns yet.
I know there were AI improvements, but this is re-god-damn-diculous.

Thanks

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PhilK
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Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 04:22 PM
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I've only played one mission properly, but after watching a P-39 I was fighting perform about 8 consecutive low-altitude loops, I thought well, they may have improved the AI, but they haven't made it any more realistic.


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EHood
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Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 05:38 PM
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I'm still strictly an off-line player. So far, in my experience, the stock missions aren't much different after 4.11. However, the AI, especially enemy pilots, in a third-party campaign I was flying when I installed 4.11 seemed to change dramatically. It was like being back at the beginning of the fabled learning curve, although, as I gained more experience, things became a bit less frantic. It takes some getting used to, but once you learn to stay on your toes, and pay more attention to what the enemy aircraft are doing, things do become a bit less harrowing.

At the moment I'm into another thrid-party campaign, by another designer. It's no cake-walk, either, but I couldn't honestly say whether or not 4.11 has anything to do with the apparent increase in the aggressiveness of the enemy AI. As for PhilK's P-39, and the eight consecutive loops, I haven't seen anything quite like that. I do recall, however, seeing some fairly peculiar behavior now and then pre-4.11. For instance, I remember an .ntrk someone posted on M4T some time ago, in which a Spitfire being flown by the AI insisted on making some strange moves:
www.mission4today.com/...ls&id=4082


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johnnythunder
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Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 07:53 PM
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This video shows how the A.I. aiming ability has changed.
youtu.be/NcvrCfErUr4

As you can see the A.I. is MUCH better at scoring hits now. I have also noticed the A.I. can screw up and overall feels a lot more human. I chased a Zero in a P-40 in 4.11 and he couldn't shake me. After about 2 minutes of doing this the A.I. got excited or scared of something. He accidentally did 4 or 5 snap rolls because he freaked out. That doesn't happen in 4.10.

It's harder, but more realistic. I like it.

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EHood
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Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 08:53 PM
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Here's a sentence I should have included in my posting (above), regarding strange AI behavior:

Back in The Day, the sort of odd actions discussed here (the 8 loops PhilK saw, and the hot-dogging in the .ntrk I cited) might have been interpreted either as the result of random glitches, or greetings or a signature, of a sort, from a bored programmer.

As far as the apparent increase in aggression, I think johnnythunder is right. Since 4.11, nothing can be taken for granted. You really have to keep your head on a swivel.


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Last edited by EHood on Thu Mar 22, 2012 08:56 PM; edited 2 time in total
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sjcnospam
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Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:01 AM
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I previously published a mission pack: "Retreads Squadron". One of the missions has the Russians taking out bridges with rockets (RS-82s; July '41). One volley used to take out the bridge. Version 4.11 no longer allows a wooden bridge to be taken out with a pair of rockets. When I update this for UP 3.1, I will have to arm with bombs instead.

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Sakai007
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Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 01:07 AM
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The AI is much more aggressive now, by leaps and bounds. I have also seen enemy pilots mess up under fire and stall/spin or bail out with just a couple rounds over the wing. When many of the missions and campaigns available were built, this wasn't the case. The AI skills levels were set through the roof, and now they fight like crazy at the Vet and Ace levels.

A whole new ball game, in other words!!! Very Happy


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pfslau
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Post Post subject: 4.11 Much harder than 4.10>
Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:35 AM
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I not only find it harder in the Growing Glory, I find it almost impossible to shoot them down. Someone please try the first mission in Growing Glory, normal settings, play with the HUD and even the icon on maps so you know where the other planes are. Let me know what your results are, and how long you flew the mission.
After chasing the planes around for 30 minutes without results I get a bit discouraged to say the least.

Like I said I find they are always higher and faster and I have no chance.

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Sakai007
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Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 04:53 PM
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I must say, according to history that's just what happened to the Japanese air arm. You've got to get some kind of advantage on them. Manually gain a whole bunch of height before you engage, then BnZ them till you're ammo or advantage runs out, then go home Smile


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Wolfenstein
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Post Post subject:
Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 06:12 PM
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AI with the same plane can still outrun me


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razor1uk
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Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 05:15 PM
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I'd say yes 4.11 is harder, maybe requires more background knowledge and certainly more attention to engine/oil temperatures, radiator/drag settings & adjusting the manual props pitch/AoA to your altitude, speed and flying manouvers.
= more realism,

...the days of doing a campaign in which you rack up masses of AI kills so easily are going, and the AI itself is slightly more life like, with less 'continous loopings' and 'climb fights'.

Now there needs to be some of the older campaigns either being redone with their relevant AI skills adjusted lower to account for the improved AI, or campaign specifically created for 4.11.


Last edited by razor1uk on Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:03 PM; edited 3 time in total
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Wolfenstein
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Post Post subject:
Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 06:25 PM
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glad I'm not upgrading 4.11


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razor1uk
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Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 08:00 PM
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Suits you then Smile ... I have yet to cook n' kill an engine in the new version, so long as you don't expect fly at 90%+ throttle in fine pitch for most of the mission(s), your engine & A/C'd be fine barring any combat damage.

Also, with the latest patch, you can go virtual Air Racing.... big speeds, smooth flying (hopefully), from impaction to 80m altitude and upto 12+ other pilots verses you with no weapons and barely enough fuel Very Happy via the Sim Air Racing League.


Last edited by razor1uk on Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:57 PM; edited 4 time in total
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bananablitz
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Post Post subject:
Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 08:27 AM
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What I think -
the AI bandits are
1. all better shots, or at least waste less ammo than they did.
2. Vets and aces are more fun to fight, they will mix up their tactics sometimes.
2. The rookies are still too good in one way - they come from every school with perfect engine management ability and nearly perfect plane handling. Some should be rubbish, finding it hard to keep up with their leaders.
Experience dosnt just improve combat skills.

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razor1uk
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Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 02:31 PM
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True, perfection of CEM should take time or skill level too, definately as it take us humies them to get to grips with it.

I think the AI improvements are going roughly in the right direction, certainly they aren't as 'perfect' as they used to be, and I believe when further patches eventually arrive, there would still be further AI 'tweeking' hopefully still in that direction.

TD do seem to pay attention to known and discovered issues, faults and things, just not so much (naturally,) to excessive &/or vehment demands, inaccuratcies, statements and unsupported research. Nor do they pay much heed to many minor (when compared to other gaming communities) flame wars that are within the IL-2 community; although at times 1C & Ubi Forums don't seem to have minor ones verses the rest of us...


Last edited by razor1uk on Mon Apr 02, 2012 02:40 PM; edited 3 time in total
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